Friday, December 19, 2008

Poor sod

This could so easily have been me and I cheerfully admit to having done exactly the same on a number of occasions. It's easy to judge his actions as wrong from an armchair, but damn near impossible not to react occasionally, when it's a day in day out occurrence. Anyone who wants to criticise him ought to try and keep order in one of our hell hole schools.

Net result: one teacher with his career in ruins and a bunch of kids who have learnt that they can do anything they like.


Anonymous said...

The only way to deal with the assults on teachers and abuse like this is to bring back corpral punishment and giving adults the right to give kids a clip round the ear when they've done something wrong, without being prosecuted for it.

Say what you like, but when I was a child in the 1950s we would never have dared been so rude or aggressive to our teachers. The reason being is that we would get 10 of the best, and the fear of actual bodily pain was what kept 99% of kids in check. Yes most of us did have a SMALL AMOUNT of fear of our teachers and I honestly don't think that is a bad thing.

We weren't petrified of them, or scared to go to school, but we were scared of getting into trouble, because we didn't want the pain of a sharp whack on the hand. This softly softly approach has had 20 years to show us that it doesn't work. It's time to turn the clocks back to a time when we had a means of diciplining that was effective.

Anonymous said...

A few weeks ago a pupil made false allegations against me for punching them. They even got witnesses to state they had seen me punch them. Luckily, the "incident" happpened in front of a classroom and the teacher could testify in my favour - but the kids were not punished. They got away with it. The head said if they went to court, they'd all sit there looking like shirley Temple and shivering at the sight of me and their lawyers would make me looke like an axe murderer. Im glad, I got off but it could easily have gone the other way and it was a stressful time. My colleagues were very supportive throughout and for that I am grateful.

Anonymous said...

Throw him through a blackboard?!
Bit harsh even by 50's education standards.

Anonymous said...

in the 50's and 60's it wasn't just fear of pain from the teacher that kept me in check - but fear of parents who backed teacher to the hilt!

Anonymous said...

First Anon is spot on, it was that small amount of fear and the very real thought of getting a painful whack that detered most ner-do-wells when I was a lad in the late 60s. Also coupled with the fact that if I did get into trouble my Dad would give me twice the punishment when I got home.

Kids today have no fear of anything and they know very little of being punished for their actions. As Chalky points out those brats now think it's ok to abuse people because they wont get into any real trouble.

Again, when I was a lad, we did have respect for adults, but it was a respect born out of having that little bit of fear in the back of your mind, that if you disrespected an adult, you'd feel the back of their hand, or the cane. Totally agree with first anon that there is nothing wrong with that. Like he said, we weren't so fearful that we were terrified of adults or going to school. It was simply a control device that made us aware of what the boundaries were.

I don't care what you say, the deterants that the poor bloody teachers have today are not tough enough, whose scared of a detention, or writing lines? For a punishment to work it has to be scary enough to make you never want to get it. I got 10 of the best only once at school and I can still to this day remember how much it hurt and I never wanted to have it done again. If I'd been given a detention or lines, I would have thought this is a joke and carried on messing about.

It is time to turn the clock back. People say well you can't do that, but what damage could it do? First Anon said we've had 20 years of schooling without corpral punishment, lets reintroduce it for 10 years and see if it makes any difference.

Anonymous said...

The uneducated miscreants of today will be the workers (?) of tomorrow.

Meanwhile, today's uneducated BBC workers don't even understand basic grammar. See -

"...the affect it would have on his career."

There is no hope for us.

Anonymous said...

What's the matter with fear? Where did the belief arise (it's a dumb question: it arose at the same time as the Cult Of The Child As Spotless Vessel Of God's Sweet Love arose and conferred upon it the rights of an adult) that all kids, just given the chance, will develop via teachery example a respect for authority and a clear understanding of the rights of others?

Some will, mainly the ones who got a grounding in respect at home; but many won't, and the only thing you can keep them in line with is fear of the consequences. Ask anyone who brakes when they spot a speed camera.

Anonymous said...

Sheriff Charles Macnair told the teacher: "Both of these assaults were minor, and had it not been for your position as a teacher, I do not consider that would have been subject to criminal prosecution."

"I do accept that on the two occasions you were subject to extreme abuse by the two young men."

"The force you used was minimal

Says it all really... it is ok for them to abuse the teacher. These double standards must stop.why where the "kids" not arrested and charged as well?????????? Or you could take the same approach as a private business does now and bring a civil case. Unions note!

Margaret English said...

There is no doubt that many people who do not teach will be quick to criticise this teacher's actions. It is clear to me that the "poor sod" had been pushed to the limits of his patience.

I have often been in situations whereby I can feel my body shaking with rage and I admit to saying things that perhaps I shouldn't- yet I have never laid my hands on a student and I think that threatening to throw a student through a blackboard is a bit much.

Lastly, the article does not shed enough light on Mr Barile's previous actions. In addition to the 2006 allegations, the sentence "your previously good record, AT LEAST SINCE 1999, .." concerns me.

Anonymous said...


couldn't agree more with you. Over the last 20-30 years we have increasingly adopted the notion that the child can do no wrong and is pure and sweet at all times. We have allowed them to have too many adult privileges and freedoms and now it has come back to bite us in the bum.

Nobody (at least I hope not) is advocating turning children into nervous wrecks at the sight of an adult through fear. However, there is nothing at all wrong with them having that VERY SMALL amount in the back of their minds, just enough so that it keeps them in line most of the time. Children and young people will mess around and act the fool once in a while, that's natural and healthy. The problem comes when they decide to challenge authority in a rude, disrespectful and deeply aggressive way on a constant basis, without having any fear of the consequences.

There is nothing wrong with a young person raising their hand and saying "Sir, with the greatest respect I don't know if I believe what you're saying, I always thought such and such." and then allowing the teacher to answer the student's challenge in a positive and respectful way. That kind of challenge to authority helps the learning process and can foster a good debate. What is not acceptable is if the same student says "Sir, your lessons are f**king s**t, and you're a complete c**t." then walks out.

This is the issue today, young people can simply act as they wish because they know that the punishments they get wont be severe, if anything at all. As anon 09.51 points out the punishments teachers can impose today wouldn't scare a baby, let alone a potential young thug. He's right line and detentions are useless; if those had been the deterents when I was a young boy at school, I would have plagued my teachers no end. I would not have been in the least bit frightened of getting into trouble. However, like him I too once got a few whacks across the hands, and yes I still remember vividly how much it hurt, and I knew then that I would never misbehave in class again.

Of course you will always have a small minority that wont mind being hit, but those members of society will usually be beyond anyones help or correction anyway.

What corpral punishment would do, is to strongly discourage the middle ground problem students, the ones who wouldn't misbehave if the punishments were far tougher and more painful. The ones who usually start off well behaved, but soon realise that there is very little teachers can do to punish them, so they try their luck a bit.

It is time to put children back in their place, to make them see that they are the children, we are the adults and pretty much whether they like it or not, until they turn 18 they do as they are told (within reason of course.) I firmly agree it is high time a small amount of fear was reintroduced to young people, so that teachers can do their job, without having to do crowd control, and good students were allowed to learn, without young thugs disrupting their education, for lack of effective punishments.

Anonymous said...

Quite. If fear (and its primary provider corporal punishment) is all you can hope for in terms of controlling children's behaviour, and for many it is, then it's still better than the alternative, which is presently nothing.

You might be interested in Oldandrew's blog "Scenes From The Battleground". Three of his entries look at the excuses made for delinquent behaviour - "The Blameless".

Anonymous said...

I was sworn at and otherwise verbally abused by a student just as the Community Police woman came upon us. She 'grabbed' the student and frogmarched her away. My first thought was 'Crikey, she shouldn't have touched her!' I spoke to the police officer later and she told me the students' mother had come to school complaining about her 'darling' daughter being 'grabbed' by the officer. Fortunatley, nothing came of it; nothing happened to the student of course, either. The officer told me that she had warned the student that had the verbal abuse occurred outside school, she would have been arrested! So why not inside school? At the end of the day, a teacher was verbally abused, an Officer had to explain why she 'grabbed' a student and the student escaped any form of punishment by either her parents or the school. We are sending these kids a great message, eh!

Anonymous said...

xxx and your previously good record, at least since 1999,xxx.... when you actualy DID put their face through the black board???

What a strange comment.

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