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Common sense needs to come from either side, from the school, why doesnt' it just let her wear the veil, on what security ground should she not wear it? God forbibs that she should hide WMD under it. From the parent, if that school doesn't accept it, then try the next one until one can be found, if not, home schooling is not bad an option if you wish to protect your daughter. Remember One should not force one's believe on the other, and it works both ways!
Strange. I always thought that it was only married muslim women who were 'required' to wear the niqab (full veil) - usually at the husband's insistence. Single girls generally wear only the headscarf.
So perhaps there's more to this than meets the eye - if you can see out from your niqab, that is.
Here in the UAE I have many married students, and only a very small few are fully veiled during lessons. I don't think it interferes in the student's learning, and it's certainly possible to understand the student's voice through the thin piece of cloth.
We have a long tradition of actually being able to see the kids' faces whom we teach. It's extremely disconcerting to talk to someone whose face is completely covered as the visual feedback that we are used to seeing is simply not there.
There's a couple of other good reasons for not allowing it either
1)It's just another barrier to integration.
2) It's hardly demonstating equality of the sexes! She has no choice whatsoever as to whether she wears it.
Kate Jen - I feel your paranoia is showing through. Let's look at your assertions and see how feeble they really are...
1] "The problem's simple. This isn't the UAE!" Yes, and the UAE seems to be far more tolerant than the UK! They do not force us to dress like them, and they do not force other muslims (my wife is one of them) to dress like UAE muslims. And they don't force us to 'integrate' in a narrow and prescribed fashion, either!
2] "We have a long tradition of actually being able to see the kids' faces whom we teach." Well, things change baby! I'm not sure that it constitutes a 'tradition', anyway. Has it been a 'tradition' to teach children only when they are wearing 'proper' shoes and socks, and not trainers, etc.?
3] "It's extremely disconcerting to talk to someone whose face is completely covered as the visual feedback that we are used to seeing is simply not there." Total bollocks again. The brain soon learns to compensate for any percieved lack of visual feedback, so it can not be called 'extremely disconcerting" in any way at all. It takes a short while to get used to - nothing more.
4] "It's just another barrier to integration." No, it's a barrier to YOUR IDEA of integration! Just because a woman wears a niqab, it does not mean you can not treat her in the same way as you would any other person. Would you say that a person's black skin was a barrier to integration?
5] "It's hardly demonstating equality of the sexes! She has no choice whatsoever as to whether she wears it." There is no equality of the sexes in Islam. If you want to pick a fight, start here!
Anonymous said... Remember One should not force one's believe on the other, and it works both ways! 14:06
Why the hell not? The Saudis do it in Saudi Arabia. The Iranians do it in Iran. The Sunnis and the Shiites do it in Iraq. Do the Christians do it here? Of course not. There are no longer enough Christians. We are all liberals, and starting to pay for it.
Was that a rhetorical question? You just provided a good list of examples. If liberation is a religion, then what we are doing is forcing it on others.
It's hardly demonstating equality of the sexes! She has no choice whatsoever as to whether she wears it.
I am afraid your answer is a little self-centred. Equality of sexes has overwritten individual rights? Or was it your perception of equality of sexes hence the girl has to give up her individual rights. We have NO knowledge whether she wants to wear it or not, we just assume she was force into it. I have met many Muslim women who told me they feel naked without their headscarf. So if you are living in a nudist colony, would you go naked because everyone wants you to or would you prefer to have a choice. I acknowledged that some or many women were forced into it but what we need to avoid is to accuse every single one is a representation of inequality because that is how you perceive it, some or many may have chosen to do so at their own free will.
There is no equality of the sexes in Islam. If you want to pick a fight, start here!
These women don't choose anything. They are simply told exactly what to do and think by men. In the UK we believe in freedom of choice for the individual and equality of men and women. Other countries have very different ideas
Actually, they are smart; they can't possibly not win this one. They receive legal aid to fight their "worthwile battle " , so if they losse it hasn't cost them a penny of their own money (or their benefits). Then they can still go for compensation for hurt feelings and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder because we're terated them in such a racist way and sissed their culture. And if they win, hey presto, the veil girl can go to school veiled up and do brilliant in her exams becasue nobody acutally knows who or what is under the veil. If you can use a burqa to get out of the country surely it'll work to get in to a GCSE exam.
Let us not forget that islamic scholars will tell you that it is unislamic to go to a non muslim country unless you are there to trade, those that settle in another country are therefore not considered muslims.
it is therefore rich that these infedels to islam should then be allowed the evil act of halal or fasting leave etc. they can not be of islamic religion otherwise they would not be in foreign countries,
they are just opportunists. not a coincidence that they were nick named cheating arabs by the british gundeh musalman by the east i,e dirty muslims. they have the highest rate of fraud in the uk whilst other asians live their peacefully, and so many people i know and have involvement with them say they are liars, yet when you talk to the same people about asians such as sikhs all you hear is open heart, brave, helpful, good for a laugh and decent...
islam is sent by nobody it was a scam by a pervert called mohammed. if gary glitter, or jackson had enough lack of media to buy or kill people of to do what they want i am sure they would. mohammed had that privilage and he used the situation. but he was no prophet...
12 comments:
Why on Earth do they get legal aid for this?
Common sense needs to come from either side, from the school, why doesnt' it just let her wear the veil, on what security ground should she not wear it? God forbibs that she should hide WMD under it. From the parent, if that school doesn't accept it, then try the next one until one can be found, if not, home schooling is not bad an option if you wish to protect your daughter. Remember One should not force one's believe on the other, and it works both ways!
Strange. I always thought that it was only married muslim women who were 'required' to wear the niqab (full veil) - usually at the husband's insistence. Single girls generally wear only the headscarf.
So perhaps there's more to this than meets the eye - if you can see out from your niqab, that is.
Here in the UAE I have many married students, and only a very small few are fully veiled during lessons. I don't think it interferes in the student's learning, and it's certainly possible to understand the student's voice through the thin piece of cloth.
So what's the bloody problem??!
The problem's simple. This isn't the UAE!
We have a long tradition of actually being able to see the kids' faces whom we teach. It's extremely disconcerting to talk to someone whose face is completely covered as the visual feedback that we are used to seeing is simply not there.
There's a couple of other good reasons for not allowing it either
1)It's just another barrier to integration.
2) It's hardly demonstating equality of the sexes! She has no choice whatsoever as to whether she wears it.
Kate Jen - I feel your paranoia is showing through. Let's look at your assertions and see how feeble they really are...
1] "The problem's simple. This isn't the UAE!"
Yes, and the UAE seems to be far more tolerant than the UK! They do not force us to dress like them, and they do not force other muslims (my wife is one of them) to dress like UAE muslims. And they don't force us to 'integrate' in a narrow and prescribed fashion, either!
2] "We have a long tradition of actually being able to see the kids' faces whom we teach."
Well, things change baby! I'm not sure that it constitutes a 'tradition', anyway. Has it been a 'tradition' to teach children only when they are wearing 'proper' shoes and socks, and not trainers, etc.?
3] "It's extremely disconcerting to talk to someone whose face is completely covered as the visual feedback that we are used to seeing is simply not there."
Total bollocks again. The brain soon learns to compensate for any percieved lack of visual feedback, so it can not be called 'extremely disconcerting" in any way at all. It takes a short while to get used to - nothing more.
4] "It's just another barrier to integration."
No, it's a barrier to YOUR IDEA of integration! Just because a woman wears a niqab, it does not mean you can not treat her in the same way as you would any other person. Would you say that a person's black skin was a barrier to integration?
5] "It's hardly demonstating equality of the sexes! She has no choice whatsoever as to whether she wears it."
There is no equality of the sexes in Islam. If you want to pick a fight, start here!
Anonymous said...
Remember One should not force one's believe on the other, and it works both ways!
14:06
Why the hell not? The Saudis do it in Saudi Arabia. The Iranians do it in Iran. The Sunnis and the Shiites do it in Iraq.
Do the Christians do it here? Of course not. There are no longer enough Christians. We are all liberals, and starting to pay for it.
Why the hell not?
Was that a rhetorical question? You just provided a good list of examples. If liberation is a religion, then what we are doing is forcing it on others.
It's hardly demonstating equality of the sexes! She has no choice whatsoever as to whether she wears it.
I am afraid your answer is a little self-centred. Equality of sexes has overwritten individual rights? Or was it your perception of equality of sexes hence the girl has to give up her individual rights. We have NO knowledge whether she wants to wear it or not, we just assume she was force into it. I have met many Muslim women who told me they feel naked without their headscarf. So if you are living in a nudist colony, would you go naked because everyone wants you to or would you prefer to have a choice. I acknowledged that some or many women were forced into it but what we need to avoid is to accuse every single one is a representation of inequality because that is how you perceive it, some or many may have chosen to do so at their own free will.
There is no equality of the sexes in Islam. If you want to pick a fight, start here!
Let's keep this discussion friendly. :)
These women don't choose anything. They are simply told exactly what to do and think by men. In the UK we believe in freedom of choice for the individual and equality of men and women. Other countries have very different ideas
Actually, they are smart; they can't possibly not win this one.
They receive legal aid to fight their "worthwile battle " , so if they losse it hasn't cost them a penny of their own money (or their benefits). Then they can still go for compensation for hurt feelings and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder because we're terated them in such a racist way and sissed their culture. And if they win, hey presto, the veil girl can go to school veiled up and do brilliant in her exams becasue nobody acutally knows who or what is under the veil. If you can use a burqa to get out of the country surely it'll work to get in to a GCSE exam.
Let us not forget that islamic scholars will tell you that it is unislamic to go to a non muslim country unless you are there to trade, those that settle in another country are therefore not considered muslims.
it is therefore rich that these infedels to islam should then be allowed the evil act of halal or fasting leave etc. they can not be of islamic religion otherwise they would not be in foreign countries,
they are just opportunists. not a coincidence that they were nick named cheating arabs by the british gundeh musalman by the east i,e dirty muslims. they have the highest rate of fraud in the uk whilst other asians live their peacefully, and so many people i know and have involvement with them say they are liars, yet when you talk to the same people about asians such as sikhs all you hear is open heart, brave, helpful, good for a laugh and decent...
islam is sent by nobody it was a scam by a pervert called mohammed. if gary glitter, or jackson had enough lack of media to buy or kill people of to do what they want i am sure they would. mohammed had that privilage and he used the situation. but he was no prophet...
Sad... i hope things can be work out because in all of this the student is the most affected...
I just cant get over this site!
How come its not updated anymore?
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